{"id":1178,"date":"2011-07-25T17:43:25","date_gmt":"2011-07-25T21:43:25","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/?p=1178"},"modified":"2022-08-01T07:43:22","modified_gmt":"2022-08-01T11:43:22","slug":"this-i-should-submit-to-car-talk","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/2011\/07\/this-i-should-submit-to-car-talk\/","title":{"rendered":"This I Should Submit to <i>Car Talk<\/i>"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Update July 25, 2011: See below for answer.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em><\/em>Here&#8217;s a puzzler for you.\u00a0 Let&#8217;s say you have a hot water circulating system in your house, designed to produce hot water nearly instantly when you open the faucet.\u00a0 This system is essentially a closed loop of piping with a pump in it.<\/p>\n<p>Now, when the system is at rest (the pump is not running and there are no faucets open), all the water in the pipe is at the same pressure &#8212; the pressure of the water supply main.\u00a0 The question is, how will the pressure change if we simply turn on the pump?\u00a0 Specifically, what happens to the pressure (a) at the outlet of the pump, (b) at the connection to the water main, and (c) at the inlet of the pump?<\/p>\n<p>Bonus: There is a shutoff valve on the water main where it connects to the piping loop.\u00a0 What happens to the pressures if we close this valve first and then start the pump?<\/p>\n<p>If you would like to guess, please leave a comment.\u00a0 When a respectable period of time has elapsed (or when someone gets it right), I will post what I think are the answers.<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Answer:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<div>\n<p>Hello again, household scientists, wherever you  are.\u00a0 Here is an illustration of the system and my analysis of the problem.\u00a0 I should have included the sketch to begin with.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-1240\" title=\"pipe\" src=\"http:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/07\/pipe.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"359\" height=\"208\" srcset=\"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/07\/pipe.jpg 359w, https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/07\/pipe-300x173.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 359px) 100vw, 359px\" \/>Let\u2019s begin by pointing out that a pressure (or elevation) difference  is needed to make a fluid flow from Point A to Point B.  If there is no  pressure difference, there is no flow, and vice versa.<\/p>\n<p>Now consider the first situation, where the main water valve is  open, all faucets are closed, and the circulating pump is started.\u00a0  The  pump pulls water from its inlet (creating suction) and pushes  water into its outlet pipe (increasing its pressure).\u00a0  So, the pump  inlet pressure goes down and the outlet pressure goes up.\u00a0 What about the  pressure at the water supply?  Well, since there is no flow from the  water main into the closed circulating loop, and there is no reverse  flow from the loop into the water main (otherwise the loop would  empty itself), this must mean there is no pressure difference between  the water main and the piping loop at the point where they join  together.\u00a0  So the answer: the pressure where the water main enters the loop is equal to the water main pressure; the pressure at the  inlet of the pump is somewhat lower than the water main pressure; and  the pressure at the outlet of the pump is somewhat higher than the water  main pressure.\u00a0  The exact pressure readings depend on the friction caused by the walls of the pipe as the water circulates in the loop.<\/p>\n<p>Now let\u2019s consider what happens if we close off the water main before  we start the pump.  When we close the main valve, the water in the loop will remain at that (main) pressure indefinitely, as long as there are no leaks.\u00a0  But when we start the pump,  the pressure at the inlet will decrease and the pressure at the outlet  will increase, just like before.\u00a0  Somewhere in the circulation loop, the pressure  will be the same as the original (water main) pressure, but this point  will not necessarily be where the water main enters the loop. \u00a0  Instead, this will be the point in the loop where the friction on the  outlet side of the pump is the same as the friction on the inlet side. \u00a0  If the pipe is the same diameter all the way around the loop, then you  will find the original (water main) pressure at the midpoint of the  loop (marked with a star in the illustration). \u00a0 The pressure will decrease from there to the inlet (suction) side  of the pump.\u00a0  The pressure will be highest at the outlet of the pump  and then decrease from there to the midpoint of the loop.<\/p>\n<p>The <em> difference<\/em> between the pump inlet and outlet pressures will be the same in both cases.<\/p>\n<p>I changed my mind: this puzzler wouldn&#8217;t stand a chance of being used on <em>Car Talk.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Update July 25, 2011: See below for answer. Here&#8217;s a puzzler for you.\u00a0 Let&#8217;s say you have a hot water circulating system in your house, designed to produce hot water nearly instantly when you open the faucet.\u00a0 This system is &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/2011\/07\/this-i-should-submit-to-car-talk\/\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[39],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1178","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interests"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1178","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1178"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1178\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3688,"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1178\/revisions\/3688"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1178"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1178"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/chcollins.com\/100Billion\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1178"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}